track day tips, please feel free to add

[indie]

For most people on this forum this will without doubt be of no interest, but to some it will be, so i figure its worth a post, as myself and a few friends where taking about this yesterday

your first trackday and your bike

Bike preparation.
1. change the oil and filter, your bike will be revved harder than normal for longer periods.
2. change the brake fluid, the lever will become spongy when old fluid gets hot.
3. check brake pads, pads with half life or less will fade quicker due to poor heat dissapation.
4. check discs for wear and cracks.
5. check chain and sprockets for wear and tight spots, lubricate it.
6. check tyres for wear and adjust pressures when at the track, 29F 30R (cold) will cover all bikes in the novice group.
7. remove or tape up mirrors, front and rear lights (including brake light) and speedo.
8. if your bike has a removable baffle take it with you, if your silencer is for 'race use only' buy a DB killer and take it with you...there's nothing worse than being told your bike is too loud and you cant go on track, better to be safe.
8. give the bike a good look over for anything loose or leaking.

Things to take with you.
1. small tool kit.
2. chain lube.
3. roll of duck tape.
4. 2 or 3 rags
5. if you normaly use a dark visor take a spare clear one in case the track is damp.
6. fuel, as some will be riding to the track this will not be possible but fuel is available to buy at the track. (£6.50 gallon)

General stuff!
1. dont go on the raz the night before, get a good early nights sleep.
2. have a light breakfast.
3. arrive at the circuit in good time 7.00-7.30am
4. fill in your indemnity forms the day before and keep them with your licence DO NOT FORGET THESE!!
5. listen to the briefing and take note of the flags and what they mean.
6. eat light snacks and drinks throughout the day, dont have a big lunch! i usually take a bunch of bananas and eat half of one after each session followed by some ribena. (this works a treat)
7. make sure your riding kit is in good order, zips, fastners etc.
8. above all relax and enjoy the day, there's nothing to worry about you will grinning from ear to ear after the first session!!

[morpheus20170]

Don't worry to much about oil and filter change or brake fluid unless you are already running on tango, lol.
Check chain tension and make sure not too tight.
Take both parts of your licence.
Don't bother with a dark visor.
You will need a one piece or a two piece that zips completely together.
Always warm your tyres for the 1st few laps, every session but you will be advised to do this at the start of each session anyway as you leave pit lane.

Don't get too bothered about all of the above or trying to go too fast on a circuit you have never ridden before. Get to know the lines of the circuit and build your pace slowly, this way you will be faster than you think and a damn sight smoother and safer.
Use the free instructors, that is what they are there for.

[supZ]

# raise your idle to around 2.5-3k. this will help make downshifts smoother if your bike doesnt have a slipper clutch
# tape up your speedo. if you must know how fast you were going buy a speed tracker. your rev counter is the important one, not your speed.

to add a couple

[mikiboy]

If you are in novice, then run NORMAL tyre pressures.
You need to be in the faster section of Inters or fast before dropping pressures that much.
If you have a fast bike, then maybe a couple of PSI will help but no way drop 12 and 16 psi if you are not riding hard enough to make the tyres work

[mikiboy]

Been there before.  It isnt funny

[morpheus20170]

Who would drop 12 and 16 psi? I don't know any amatuer racers that do that. 2 psi I was advised to drop back and front and that worked ok but the last time I did Brands I got there late and went out for my first session with standard pressures and blistered my sidewalls something rotten.

[UKDucky]

take a spare pair of knickers    and a couple of energy drinks 

[mikiboy]

sorry.  Cant add but 36 - 42 psi for the road down to 30 - 29 is a lot especially when the fast guys are doing that.  Bear in mind, many people cant even warm a tyre properly on the road

[morpheus20170]

I agree that most people go out on the road and track and don't warm their tyres properly.
I have seen sooooooo many people trashing their bikes on druids and clearways because they are cranked over with cold tyres. Someone went straight off at clearways in front of me quite a while back on a Ducati Supermotard (sorry about the spelling)

[Wheelspin]

I was recommended to use 30/30 on my Er-6 which normally runs 32/36 and 34/32 on the CBR which normally runs 36/42.

This was run in novice on the ER and inters on the CBR and the recommendation come from the tyre manufacturer.

[morpheus20170]

Wow!! 10 psi drop on the rear even in inters

[judge dredd]

Just a reminder, even the well paid professionals fall foul of cool tyres .  Even Rossi, when he came off and broke his leg.  He had done a few laps and slowed down in order to have no one behind him.  It was just enough for his tyres to cool.  Okay round 2 right handers and then wollop.  first left hand bend and off he comes.

So if up at Hartside or Cat and Fiddle or any other brew spot, having blasted there, just remember half an hour later your tyres are cold and wont take to the road properly on the way home.  Not for a few miles anyway.  And going downhill will put even more of a strain for grip ,on a cold tyre, as u ride round bends, particularly adverse camber right handers, at anything reaching decent speeds.

Very few tracks have adverse cambers, most are advantageous and some are superelevations [ the whole track]

So Beware.   U have been warned.!!!!!!!!!

[mikiboy]

Tottaly different tyres to the road though.  Rossis tyres are TRACK TYRES and very few mortals would be capable of heating them enough on the road to get them to temperature plus they are slicks.
getting your tyres up to temperature on the road is a different ball game but still rellevent in its own right.
Hartside?  That looked pretty straight to me except for the roundabouts.  Normal riding there, methinks.  Cat and Fiddle is 50mph so again shouldnt be any problems

[judge dredd]

Hartside has a number of tight bends and downhill with heavier steering and cooled tyres can cause a problem.. Its seen that most riders lose it riding downhill rather than uphill.  The road north to Alston is also downhill with longer faster straights.  Dont know of any roundabouts though.

The Cat and Fiddle although 50 limited there will be a small number of persons maybe or possibly  could have been exceeding this speed [ i dont actually know but i cant believe that they came off at less than 50mph.]when they came off on the the corners [ dont believe that u believe that all riders will obay such a stupid limit milkiboy Its a no brainer argument]

That again is downhill and after some nice fast [ whoops] straights.  The funny thing about this road and others in the Derbyshire vale is that some 69% of bend accidents are on right handers, unlike the national average of 30%.  Maybe once again heavy on the front end, increased braking AND perhaps a steep adverse camber, or taking the raceing line [incorrectly] and jumping over the solid white lines onto the wrong side of the road could have some consequence.

I know that normal tyres differ from racing ones ,  if u ask the tyre doctor in MCN and many do, they are mainly looking for a tyre compound to play with  on their bikes on track days or go for a burn up on a sunday or dry evening.  they are not going to change that tyre for a normal one once they are on the bike and therein may lie the problem?   Its worth a consideration.  Grip on tyres is a compromise and also involved is its relationship between braking, steering as against grip  as one goes up the other goes down.  Ask to much and something has to give..... and thats always grip.

[Wheelspin]

The Cat and Fiddle although 50 limited there will be a small number of persons maybe or possibly  could have been exceeding this speed [ i dont actually know but i cant believe that they came off at less than 50mph.]when they came off on the the corners [ dont believe that u believe that all riders will obay such a stupid limit milkiboy Its a no brainer argument]

Miki's point was that road tyres get to their operating temperature very quickly without much in the way of hard riding.  If you're riding that sort of road fast enough to be worrying about your tyres being cold then frankly you're probably not the sort of person who's going to bother listening to advice.

[mikiboy]

I could fly down the Cat and Fiddle well over the speed limit on Cold tyres either road or race without any problems.  To crash on cold tyres you have to be doing something stupid.  I have only ridden it once and it's no big deal if you ride roperly.
Chances are it will be poor riding and the rider wont admit that so they blame .... aha " must have been cold tyres, diesel, the idiot who's tyre crossed the white line in the middle of the road etc........"

[judge dredd]

There is an interesting book and video available called A TWIST OF THE WRIST  2  written by Keith Code and narrated by Julian  Ryder. It has a forward by Leon Camier British Supersport and 2009 Superbike champion.

 In brief they take two average bikers on standard sports machines and tyres and through the book teach them how to take corners properly with regards to techniques for overcoming ones barriers to cornering, rider input,  countersteering, visual skills, braking, gear changing, body position, throttle control, state of tyres, corner apex and much more.   Its a very interesting read or watch.

 I would recommend it to any who want to have a go on track days.  There is a lot of interesting knowledge about the dynamics of a motorcycle which not of a lot of people know and could be of benifit to some on the road. Including advice on cold tyres.  Apparently when starting off they have only 25% of available grip and when up to temp still only have some 75% of grip.  Thats why its important to understand such things.

And as an adendum..... I dont think that some riders give a hoot about tyre temp. coz some dont know and wouldnt care anyway.  I am not making an excuse for their poor riding  and lack of ability but there are those [ the sensible majority] out there who whilst being within the speed limits may find themselves at odds with the road and would benifit from a better understanding of the nuances of bike riding.   And I am not just talking about  Advanced riding.

[mikiboy]

Half the riders on the road these days aRE IN TOP WHEN THEY SHOULD BE IN 2nd or 3rd gear.  The bike wont pull into the bend and runs wide to the point of being on the wrong side of the road.
Advanced riding will help as its about preparation for where you want to be and WHY!

[judge dredd]

I am not decrying any advanced training but just putting forward another approach that would, i feel,  benifit bikers, who may be adverse to going on such a course and being instructed [or advised] on what they are doing wrong or incorrectly.

  I think in some way the aformentiond  book or video may just do that..... Make them think and understand  what they can achieve safely and of the correct way in which to apply that knowledge sensibly.

[mikiboy]

Twist of the wrist is a superb publication as is CSS.  There is no end to be learned off it but you initially mentioned cold tyres and the Cat and Fiddle.  I was on track years ago with Andy Ibbott and he was saying how fast you can go on cold tyres and trust me, it is very fast.  A lot is in throttle techniques and being smooth and the right gears.
I do a lot of track riding and even after that still do not go anywhere near as fast as he does for 2 or 3 laps.

If you are a novice, your best bet is doing an MSV novice TD then start thinking how seriously you want to go fast on track.  best start with the bike and preparation deciding whether or not to use a road bike aor a track ready bike.
If you want more, which most of us do, then start applying what you have read in T of the W.   Readinging and then trying it on track is a sure method for disaster as it will be information overload as well as not yet knowing your own capabilities on yourt bike as NOTHING on road riding will compare to track riding.
Someone who has just passed their test may get some tips from it but again, they are still learning to ride and much will be learned from their own mistakes as well as what they are told and read.  It's like knee down.  Some people try forever and cant do it and others will do it at will.
My last trackday was spent on cold tyres where as my mate went for tyre warmers.  He didnt achieve anything I didn't do except when it rained, I was still out without using my wets, and he sat in the pits and talked bike.  I was riding with Glen Richards at the time and we were flying passed most people and although I had no scares, Glen looked like he was strolling in the park and could have been writing a biography at the same time.  It would make sod all difference what video's I had watch or books I had read, I just do not have his skill or experience or anything close to it.

[greg]

quick question about tyre pressure

Who would drop 12 and 16 psi? I don't know any amatuer racers that do that. 2 psi I was advised to drop back and front and that worked ok but the last time I did Brands I got there late and went out for my first session with standard pressures and blistered my sidewalls something rotten.

bit of an old thread but i'm not sure i understand this..

does running your tyre pressures too high result in blistering, or does he mean that he was able to use them normally at road pressures?

[guru]

Lower pressures let the tyre flex more, road pressures have a bit of a safety margin in them for not bending your rims when you hit a pothole etc. Get advice from the trackday people for your bike but typically you'd run 33/36psi front/rear on the road and then 31/30 on the track. Don't go too far down at the front, you'll feel it turn to blancmange.

[Wheelspin]

Lower pressures let the tyre flex more, road pressures have a bit of a safety margin in them for not bending your rims when you hit a pothole etc. Get advice from the trackday people for your bike but typically you'd run 33/36psi front/rear on the road and then 31/30 on the track. Don't go too far down at the front, you'll feel it turn to blancmange.

And more flex equals more heat.  More heat equals more pressure.  Basically, if you ride on track like you do on a Sunday afternoon blat then dropping a couple of PSI is fine.

However, if you're running on the edge of the tyre (lots of flex) and much higher speeds (lots of the friction) then the tyres get hot and get over inflated.  When they're over inflated you get a smaller contact patch with the tarmac and hence less grip.

I typically run 36/42 on the road and 32/30 on the track.   Generally a good idea to speak to the tyre manufacturer and get their advice though since different combinations of tyre and bike need different pressures (you can't just go but "the manual +/- X psi"). 

[greg]

I understand that, but does it affect the wear rates?

I noticed that my front tyre is now kinda triangular shaped from excessive side wear (could be because they are dual compound bt021's)

[Wheelspin]

I understand that, but does it affect the wear rates?

I noticed that my front tyre is now kinda triangular shaped from excessive side wear (could be because they are dual compound bt021's)

Frankly, if you're doing trackdays then I wouldn't be thinking about wear rates. The triangular shape is exactly what you want when cornering.  Maximum rubber on the floor.

[greg]

not so much worried about wear rates, as excessively damaging the tyre

though i can't say i'm looking forward to spending £200+ on a new set of tyres soon

[guru]

The only real damage to worry about is the rubber tearing up. Small wavy lines are fine, bigger ones indicate the rubber is starting to give.

[rotax81]

i've just flicked through this thread and there is a lot of conflicting tyre talk.

there are NO set in stone pressures because a lot of different things come into the factor.
tyre type, tyre size, track, track temp, different weight/size bikes, suspension setup, rider ability etc etc. the best thing is to drop pressures by a couple of psi (measured when tyres are cold) do a session and check the state of the tyre.
high pressures will cause too much heat directly on the contact patch. low pressures warm the whole tyre but may not heat the contact patch enough.
trial and error 

the only tips i can add is to enjoy your day.
dont get on peoples nerves by tangling with them out on track, let them pass and learn from them.
its not a race.


 

[mikiboy]

Tyre tear or blistering can be as much down to suspension.
It's quite incredible how much going up or down a couple of psi can make.  Track temp can make a difference.
Last time in France I was going up a couple of psi on advice when I thought I should be dropping pressure to stop tearing.  Talk to seasoned racedrs rather than track day hero's for proper advice.
If its your 1st trackday, chances are you'll be pretty much riiding as you do on the road

[apexgrinder]

Lucozade and soreen in small amounts between sessions for a quick energy boost!